[MP_CELICAGT]

Sorry I just got back online. Okay so it's been awhile and I still haven't purchased any upgrades. However I didn't realize how much good my vvt-i was against hondas vtec. So I had a little race with a Honda civic. I pulled front buy 1 1/2 car lengths. He had swapped a stock Integra engine. I surprised my self.

 

[Snowfork]

I come back to check how the forum is doing and this is the bollocks I see...

This is my summary of why your project won't work: :crying:

The 1ZZFE is an economy engine designed for a Corolla after the Corolla became irrelevant in stock form.

The 2ZZGE is better in almost every way and that engine isn't going to make a 40% power increase on a durable high compression setup.

The "FE" in the engine code means that it is an economy engine.
The "GE" in the engine code means that it is supposed to be a sporty engine.

You have the least sporty version of the Celica made that year.

The engine is a bad metallurgic design that inherently seeps oil due to soft sleeves in the cylinders.

You talk about not wanting to boost the engine due to your fear of wrecking the block?
You realize you are going to need to run race fuel that is so high octane that you can't buy it at a station?

You would be adding a methane mist system and running 120+ octane fuel to prevent your +13:1 compression from turning your block into a giant M80.


In fact, if you emailed a tuning shop asking if they would take on this project, they wouldn't even return your message.

 

[Foxtherouge]

Enginehaus of gig harbor and speedway of lakewood in my area are more then willing to do this work. And as has been proved, a 1zz can be a powerful engine despite its engine code. And as previously discussed, a 1zz can be built up fairly well. It is also cheaper to build a 1zz then to buy a 2zz and build it up.

The 2zz is only worthwhile when in lift. As proved in every dyno between the 1zz and 2zz, the 2zz is slower until lift. It has less torque and produces its power higher up. Built right, a 1zz turbo will pull a turbo 2zz until lift if the same amount was put in each, and the 2zz will only creap foward as that extra power will come late in the game. The 2zz is better suited for a supercharger to make up its low end power.

This is something i have been researching for quite some time. I have talked to both Monkey Wrench and Toyota about their designs and whats best. In stock forn, the 2zz is great. Building up, a 1zz can become a beast.

 

[Snowfork]

Enginehaus of gig harbor and speedway of lakewood in my area are more then willing to do this work.

Built right, a 1zz turbo will pull a turbo 2zz until lift if the same amount was put in each, and the 2zz will only creap foward as that extra power will come late in the game. The 2zz is better suited for a supercharger to make up its low end power.

This is something i have been researching for quite some time. I have talked to both Monkey Wrench and Toyota about their designs and whats best. In stock forn, the 2zz is great. Building up, a 1zz can become a beast.

I'm looking for naturally aspirated power. Everyone around here runs boosted Honda's and I want to gain without boost.

Who's criteria am I following?

I'm not someone that comes into a forum as a stranger and stirs chaos.

I used to be the most active member in this entire forum until I took a break from cars to build up savings and switch jobs. My friends and I have participated in builds and seen how time and money consuming they can be.

Do you know how many people I remember actually completing their build in the manner they told us they were going to?
Three people, just 3 people since I joined the forum. Subspec, sc2jz (I think that's his name), and myself.

I have seen people laughed out of tuning shops for suggesting a naturally aspirated build to compete with turbo setups. It just does not work unless you have a severe displacement advantage.

That is why an Evo or All Trac can run down a V8 sportscar.

 

[Foxtherouge]

As OP stated:

See now I'm just debating wether I should go turbo or not. But I do want to up the power on my celica. But at the same time I like to embarrass people and building N/a power is my ultimate choice. For how I like my cars it's suits me better. But how do I start out on the N/a build like what parts should I install first?

I have no idea who's criteria you're following. It seems like you just skimmed through the thread instead of reading it fully.

I know you're not one to stir chaos, but when your opening statement is:

I come back to check how the forum is doing and this is the bollocks I see...

It comes off as very arrogant.

I am fully aware of who you are. And comparing how many people you remember completing a build vs how many have asked how to do it, the difference is astounding. People are going to always ask. We are here to help people, even if it's linking to another thread they could have found themselves. All 3 people you listed never worked on a 1zz have they? Subspec is well known for his 5sge he built, which was a marvelous read by the way. I never saw your build thread, I honestly never looked for it as your sig says you had a 7mgte third gen, which was of no use to me and my 4th or 7th gen needs, no offense. As for sc2jz, he had a pre fwd Celica right? I've heard of him and seen a few posts of his, but never his build thread.

I've seen 4 pots get laughed at by shops that work on v6 and v8 cars. Doesn't mean they won't work on your car. Money talks. Heck, Speedway customers where laughing at a Mustang Cobra when I went in to ask about having my engine built through them. Your statement has no use in this thread, it's neither constructive or helpful to the OP and was nothing more then your opinion on why this person shouldn't do what he wants.

All due respect,most V8 cars are so heavy that a decently powered light weight 4 banger can beat them. I know my old 2se powered 86 GT was able to hold her own on Mustang Cobra's until a certain point when their power to weight ratio balanced out. Nothing a little tuning on my end couldn't fix. v8 and up can make a lot of power, but their weight is tremendous. What really is appealing is their torque figures, not HP. If you want great HP, a built 6 cylinder is your best bet.

 

[Snowfork]

I used to be the most active member in this entire forum until I took a break from cars to build up savings and switch jobs. My friends and I have participated in builds and seen how time and money consuming they can be.

Do you know how many people I remember actually completing their build in the manner they told us they were going to?
Three people, just 3 people since I joined the forum. Subspec, sc2jz (I think that's his name), and myself.

Yes I skimmed, yes that was wrong of me, yes I apologize for jumping the gun.

I'll remove all the speculation then.

Show us proof that you did the unlikely, but not impossible task and we will bow down and praise you.

As proof of this, look up when I told sc2jz the same thing and then kissed his boots when he did the improbable, **** near magical job of putting a supra drive-line under a 7th gen Celica.

Sure, I'm harsh and sometimes excitable, but I'm not unfair or unfounded.

As a side-note, I apologize for the comment calling your build "bollocks"

 

[Snowfork]

All 3 people you listed never worked on a 1zz have they?

None of us have, but I have more than once seen how fragile that engine is after it failed prematurely in bone stock form.

Subspec is well known for his 5sge he built, which was a marvelous read by the way.

I believe he commented about his dislike of the fragility of the ZZ engines.

I never saw your build thread, I honestly never looked for it as your sig says you had a 7mgte third gen, which was of no use to me and my 4th or 7th gen needs, no offense.

The frame broke due to rust and engine torque before I documented it properly. Then I took it apart and sold everything.
The guy I built it to compete with helped me build the car and so did about 3 dozen locals at the car meet. When it broke apart coming home, it became a liability and I was scared to rebuild it in case it broke again going down the freeway.

As for sc2jz, he had a pre fwd Celica right? I've heard of him and seen a few posts of his, but never his build thread.

He has a 7th gen celica with a 2JZ in it.

Sorry about the gigantic picture, I don't know how to downsize it.

 

[Snowfork]

To cap off this long winded reply, your build isn't nuts and you could find people willing to take your money to do this right.
I feel your power goal is a tad high, but boost does insane things to foreign engines, if you are willing to go that route.
I thought you were avoiding boosting so that is why I trounced you for trying to make 250whp.

Try long and hard enough and you can do anything with any car. Keep in mind that your time is money and other people's time is even more money. If you can afford to throw money at it constantly over a long period, it will get done. Just be prepared to do a lot of cash chucking along the way.

My Celica's parts cost me 6 times what the car cost when I bought it. Most people told me I was crazy and I soldiered on. If some bullhead on a forum could've discouraged me, I would be unworthy of owning that car.

 

[Foxtherouge]

Ah ive seen that 2jz celi before.

I apreciate the apology, i really do. I just cant wait till i can build up and turbo my car. Im also hoping in the next year or so to pick up either a 86 gts (im trying to iron out a deal with a guy locally right now for a nice blue one with 120k on it) or a 88 or 89 alltrac.

 

[Danny the hero]

That was an unexpected turn of events.

 

[MP_CELICAGT]

So that's what happened while I was out.

Okay so back to my build. I was able to achieve 17 more horses by just regular tuning. And now that I have an Injen intake and mild street cams I brought my car to at least 142. I also found a guy who's friend makes custom parts. He said he can fabricate an ITB kit for my celica but I'm not so sure.

I still have the dents from when I first got it But the build is coming along. Took me awhile cuase I tried to is tall the parts myself but it worked out in the end. So yeah I think 142 at the wheels is good.

 

[MP_CELICAGT]

Now after I get out of this fast food joint, I will be able to bore out the engine to a 2 liters. And then more gains by getting the forged pistons and rods from eagle.

 

[Brian1649]

I was about ready to get some popcorn and sit down to read this whole argument. it cleared up so nicely though

 

[Light Force]

Which cams did you buy?

If you can post some pics of your work; it's always nice to see other's builds.