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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello gang.  Wondering if the Turbo from the All trac toyota would work on my 3GSE J-Spec engine?  If so, would it be better to go to a junkyard and get it, or order it from Toyota?  Thanks.
 

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do you mean 3sge? what year is it? a stock turbo will bolt on... but have a different ecu, mass air meter, when you would go o boost the cpu wouldnt know what was going on. also your compression ratio is gonna be somewhere between 9.2-9.5:1 which is high for a turbo car.. i wouldnt do it inless you are gonna tear down the engine and rebuild it for a turbo, if you do decide to do it boost small, maybe 4-5psi i wouldnt buy a turbo from a junk yard inless you plan to have it rebuilt before putting it in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Originally posted by jhull@July 27 2002,9:33
do you mean 3sge? what year is it? a stock turbo will bolt on... but have a different ecu, mass air meter, when you would go o boost the cpu wouldnt know what was going on. also your compression ratio is gonna be somewhere between 9.2-9.5:1 which is high for a turbo car.. i wouldnt do it inless you are gonna tear down the engine and rebuild it for a turbo, if you do decide to do it boost small, maybe 4-5psi i wouldnt buy a turbo from a junk yard inless you plan to have it rebuilt before putting it in.
I'd likely go aftermarket, and yeah, switched the letters in the engine designation.  I was thinking of building the bottom end, getting dry coated pistons and bearings, and of course, an IC.  As for the ECU, and mass air meter, is it better to buy that new or find it used?
 

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dude , you are about to do the same project i did.... thought no one else would try it, well i also did the swap the same time. but anyway what is your budget?? well all of the mods you are planning are a very good idea, keep in mind this project can start to get expensive but dont give up. as far as the ecu, mass air meter, if you swap ecu and mass air meter with the 3sgte you'll very quickly learn all the extra features that the 3sgte had that you might not. like knock sensor ect... missing these extra features will put the computer in a safe mode. If you wanna do it right the first time get a stand alone engine management, that will get rid of the restrictive mass air meter and replace it with a map sensor, and also make your project much easier, it will also allow you to run larger injectors or just get more out of the ones you have. as far as mods i would suggest you can look at my signiture to see what i did so far, also dont forget you will need a blow off valve and waste gate. i know some one that makes manifolds to fit a t-4 turbo and they come with a flange for a tial 40 mm wastegate also. that might be something to look at, you will also need someone to bend all the pipes for you as well for the intake and all. if you are interested in doing it i can tell you everything you need to know just ask.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Originally posted by jhull@July 29 2002,7:30
dude , you are about to do the same project i did.... thought no one else would try it, well i also did the swap the same time. but anyway what is your budget?? well all of the mods you are planning are a very good idea, keep in mind this project can start to get expensive but dont give up. as far as the ecu, mass air meter, if you swap ecu and mass air meter with the 3sgte you'll very quickly learn all the extra features that the 3sgte had that you might not. like knock sensor ect... missing these extra features will put the computer in a safe mode. If you wanna do it right the first time get a stand alone engine management, that will get rid of the restrictive mass air meter and replace it with a map sensor, and also make your project much easier, it will also allow you to run larger injectors or just get more out of the ones you have. as far as mods i would suggest you can look at my signiture to see what i did so far, also dont forget you will need a blow off valve and waste gate. i know some one that makes manifolds to fit a t-4 turbo and they come with a flange for a tial 40 mm wastegate also. that might be something to look at, you will also need someone to bend all the pipes for you as well for the intake and all. if you are interested in doing it i can tell you everything you need to know just ask.
Well, I'd like to do bare minimum to get it running first, and do the rest as I go.  Budget isn't a huge issue as long as I can do it as a move along type thing.  What will I need to do in order to protect the engine and get it running?  I know the compression is higher on this, this is also the JSpec engine, so not quite sure what makes it different from the ASpec engine, but I'm fairly certain I'll need dished pistons, or run a lower boost with a boost controller.

EDIT: BTW, you mention the Knock Sensor.  I LOVE the idea of having one, my grand prix has that, and I would like to make sure I am not getting any KR, and that's the best way I can think to do it.  Now obviously the toyota way is prob the best way to start it, and eventually make it stronger and faster as I go I would think.  Am I incorrect in this?  Would it be better to NOT use the all trac turbo, etc?  I mean the 3sgte knock sensor not be able to be put onto a 3sge since they are the same block, etc?
 

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i am from nj. your best bet in doing this is tearing out the engine and doing the internals first so that is done and stable, i choose t replace everything, but have heard by multiple people that the stock rods are capable of handiling 600hp, Im not to sure if this is true so if they dont its not my fault i choose to get new ones just in case. If u got the money and the time get new ones. I know i had to wake about 2 months to get mine in and they costed about 830.00, i know that eagle stocks our rods and cost on them is around 350.00, but i dont know what the specs are on them and i also know they are a little heavier than the pauter rods. I choose je pistons at 8.5:1 it set my compression the same as the 3sgte, some people even go down to about 8.0:1 depending on location, just keep in mind the higher compression u go the more hp, but u will also need higher octane gas and you have a better chance in spark knock. another thing to look at is going to be how much u plan to boost. i payed 650 for my pistons with some total seal gappless rings. as far as the crank goes, i had it balanced turned, shot peened and magnifluxed. I dont remmember what kinda bearings i used the machine shop provided them. I also had the whole head redone, and then ported and polished. I actually got a extra exhast manifold, and moddified it to fit a t-4 turbo, and tial wastegate. if you have about 400-550 dollars extra you can have a tubular manifold made which could get u some more hp. i just didnt have that in my budget at that time. u will need a good supply of gas, i got myself a tt supra fuel pump about 280.00 and a trd fuel pressure regulator 280.00, i also got a stand alone engine management system and wired my injectors so they are batch seq. so that will give me enouph flexablility with the stock inj. and i dont think i will need any larger ones. i made my own down pipe outta 3 inch piping i also did my exhast and intake. if you dont have any way to access a pipe bender or cant bend pipe then i would just go to a muffler shop and have them do it if they have the balls. You will aslo need a oil return line for the turbo, i cut a hole in my oil pan and welded a flange to it for that. i used my oil pressure senor for the oil inlet i used a spliter to send one line to the turbo and send the other to the oil pressure sensor. as far as sensors and all go, i strongly recommend getting the stand alone yes its not cheap but its the best investment you can make, it will get rid of the mass air meter (which is the worst design i ever seen) it will get rid of the ignitor and everything. it will also allow you to set ur own fuel maps so u wont run to lean and it will allow you to retard your timing when you boost (which is a must!!!). for starters in ur situation i would do pistons, rings, bearings, rods (if your not comfortable with the ones you have), stock turbo will boost around 16psi, i know you will replace it down the road, so if you get one dont pay to much for it otherwise get ur self like a t-4 itll cost around 1000 for the turbo, wastegate, and bov. you will also need a boost gauge 100, and boost controller 50. intercooler you will need, size is depending on the turbo you go with, engine management 1500 <== some people skip that, but they also have turbos stock, if you skip that you will need the 3sgte harness, injectors, mass air meter, computer, and some other small things, it would probrolly add up to be as much as the engine management. these would give u a better start than most other people have. keep in mind everything in the engine is done, all you have left is bolt ons. let me know what you plan to do my aol screen name is jhull0712 if u wanna im me i might be able to help you some more
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Originally posted by jhull@Aug. 01 2002,7:16
i am from nj. your best bet in doing this is tearing out the engine and doing the internals first so that is done and stable, i choose t replace everything, but have heard by multiple people that the stock rods are capable of handiling 600hp, Im not to sure if this is true so if they dont its not my fault i choose to get new ones just in case. If u got the money and the time get new ones. I know i had to wake about 2 months to get mine in and they costed about 830.00, i know that eagle stocks our rods and cost on them is around 350.00, but i dont know what the specs are on them and i also know they are a little heavier than the pauter rods. I choose je pistons at 8.5:1 it set my compression the same as the 3sgte, some people even go down to about 8.0:1 depending on location, just keep in mind the higher compression u go the more hp, but u will also need higher octane gas and you have a better chance in spark knock. another thing to look at is going to be how much u plan to boost. i payed 650 for my pistons with some total seal gappless rings. as far as the crank goes, i had it balanced turned, shot peened and magnifluxed. I dont remmember what kinda bearings i used the machine shop provided them. I also had the whole head redone, and then ported and polished. I actually got a extra exhast manifold, and moddified it to fit a t-4 turbo, and tial wastegate. if you have about 400-550 dollars extra you can have a tubular manifold made which could get u some more hp. i just didnt have that in my budget at that time. u will need a good supply of gas, i got myself a tt supra fuel pump about 280.00 and a trd fuel pressure regulator 280.00, i also got a stand alone engine management system and wired my injectors so they are batch seq. so that will give me enouph flexablility with the stock inj. and i dont think i will need any larger ones. i made my own down pipe outta 3 inch piping i also did my exhast and intake. if you dont have any way to access a pipe bender or cant bend pipe then i would just go to a muffler shop and have them do it if they have the balls. You will aslo need a oil return line for the turbo, i cut a hole in my oil pan and welded a flange to it for that. i used my oil pressure senor for the oil inlet i used a spliter to send one line to the turbo and send the other to the oil pressure sensor. as far as sensors and all go, i strongly recommend getting the stand alone yes its not cheap but its the best investment you can make, it will get rid of the mass air meter (which is the worst design i ever seen) it will get rid of the ignitor and everything. it will also allow you to set ur own fuel maps so u wont run to lean and it will allow you to retard your timing when you boost (which is a must!!!). for starters in ur situation i would do pistons, rings, bearings, rods (if your not comfortable with the ones you have), stock turbo will boost around 16psi, i know you will replace it down the road, so if you get one dont pay to much for it otherwise get ur self like a t-4 itll cost around 1000 for the turbo, wastegate, and bov. you will also need a boost gauge 100, and boost controller 50. intercooler you will need, size is depending on the turbo you go with, engine management 1500 <== some people skip that, but they also have turbos stock, if you skip that you will need the 3sgte harness, injectors, mass air meter, computer, and some other small things, it would probrolly add up to be as much as the engine management. these would give u a better start than most other people have. keep in mind everything in the engine is done, all you have left is bolt ons. let me know what you plan to do my aol screen name is jhull0712 if u wanna im me i might be able to help you some more
*hits the print button*  Damn!  thanks!  Ok, I might go with the stand alone engine management.  Piston wise, my brother is a manager for one of the biggest independantly owned Jiffy Lube corps in the country, and he talks to a lot of people.  The TX7 rep said he can obtain dry coated pistons and bearings for any make and model of car (which is a better way to go I believe, since that's the same technology they are using on NASCAR pistons and bearings) and that is probably how I will go as far as pistons and bearings.  Ok, so stand alone engine management is going to be better, luckily this car isn't as electronic as my grand prix, so that shouldn't be as difficult as it would be there.  I'll probably order the 3sgte pistons from the TX7 rep since they should be fine.  Now, I know that blown cars (like the GTP)want large exhaust, etc.  Would a 3" be too big for the turbo?  I know running no exhaust is ideal for a blown car, but I thought the exhaust on a turbo should be smaller?
 

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3 inch should be good for you, it all depends on compression ratio, turbos all need a larger exhast because the engine needs to be able to get out the air as fast as it gets forced in. I did a 3 inch downpipe, then splitted it to 2  1 3/4 duals. the pistons you are looking at seem like a good idea. the only thing you would have to figure out is what compression ratio your gonna go with. how many miles are on the block? might be a good idea to have it bored out a little so your pretty much starting with a new block. just a little larger bore of course. happy you understand about the engine management, it is a key factor in our applications. id like to be informed of all ur idea and what your gonna be getting so deffinetly let me know. like i said my aol screen name is jhull0712 get ahold of me.
 

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hey jhull i have a 94 celica and i am thinking of getting a turbo kit for my car. but i was also thinking about going for a jdm turbo engine. do u know anything i need to look into about this or any ideas on witch i should do. please let me know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Originally posted by jhull@Aug. 04 2002,7:40
3 inch should be good for you, it all depends on compression ratio, turbos all need a larger exhast because the engine needs to be able to get out the air as fast as it gets forced in. I did a 3 inch downpipe, then splitted it to 2  1 3/4 duals. the pistons you are looking at seem like a good idea. the only thing you would have to figure out is what compression ratio your gonna go with. how many miles are on the block? might be a good idea to have it bored out a little so your pretty much starting with a new block. just a little larger bore of course. happy you understand about the engine management, it is a key factor in our applications. id like to be informed of all ur idea and what your gonna be getting so deffinetly let me know. like i said my aol screen name is jhull0712 get ahold of me.
Ok, added you to my buddy list.  I'm billdcat1 on aol.  The block has 35k on it, so it's not too bad.  Someone suggested I go with a corolla block since the top end will still bolt to the bottom end, and I'll have a little more displacement from it as well, so I might go with a slight bore, or corolla block.
 

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6thgentuner Posted on Aug. 06 2002,11:33
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i have a 2.2l 5sfe engine runs good but the car had around 117000 miles.


ok man this is what i think u should do get urself a 3sgte head, cams, intake manifold w/throttle body and throttle positioning sensor, exhast manifold, fuel rail, injectors, valve covers, intercooler, turbo, ignitor, distributer and i think thats it, pretty much the hole top end of the engine plus the turbo exhast manifold and ignitor. fi you get this at a junk yard probrolly will cost somewhere between 200-400 for all of it. all of this stuff will bolt on to your block. then pull ur engine tear it down have the cylinders bored 20 over and have the crank turned, this should cost around 200. then have the head looked at, u might need to have the valve seats redone or any other machine work. get some pistons and rings. they should cost about 600 for all, the compression for them should be no more then 8.5:1 if you wanna be on the safe side and plan on upgrading the turbo then u can go down to 8.0:1. next the rods, get some eagles they will handle the hp u need and will cost you another 400. then add in the cost for all the gaskets and all figure for stock gaskets u will be spending around 150. replace the oil pump and water pump, i dont know what the will cost you but do it now. rod bearings and main bearings are gonna add another 100 to the total. ok next we will work on the ecu. I would again recommend using a stand alone system, cause it will be best for the car to use the stock harness (you will have to moddify this to fit all the plugs in the engine, but its much easier to do that then mod all the plugs inside the car) an using a stand alone will give you much more to play with, and then you wont have to get the 3sgte computer and attempt to connect all the wires to the ones they belong with. stand alone can cost you anywere between 1000-2500, mine was about 1000 an is fine to use, it also gets rid of some more sensors that u will need in this application so figure 1000 for the computer. and of course u will need to have a downpipe made have the exhast altered and have the intake pipes made, go to a muffler shop they should be able to do all of this for around 400. next for the common pieces sparkplugs, distributer cap, rotor, coil and wires. gonna cost somewhere near 200 depending on what brand or quality you go with. that should cover all of it, all of these prices are not set in stone, im sure u can get stuff cheaper than u listed in this post. this would get u a 5sgte engine, not many of them around, most people dont even know about this, 2.2 litre turbo, and it will beat the s*i* outta the 5sfe's that have turbos cause the head is so much better, plus this would give u a stock redline of 7400 with the stand alone and proper tuning i think u can raise that to 8000 with the stock cams. this would give you a great start and if you ever want to make more hp all you would have to do is bolt ons, cause all the internals on the engine is done... just something to think about.... but that is what i would do. i know we are a little over ur budget, but hang in there keep saving, it will be much better than buying a used 3sgte and bolting that in, cause even the 3sgte has many bounderies stock. let me know what u think about that, i can answer any other questions on that also
 

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oh yeah let me know what u choose to do, but if its not what i suggest then deffently do the engine swap, itll be cheaper, more reliable, and deffiently a lot more hp. considering the 5sfe has the economy head, and the 5sfe has whats called a map sensor, which measures the amount of air flow to the engine to accomidate it with the right amount of fuel, this type of sensor is the best for a turbo application, but the 5sfe was not made for a turbo, people tha turbo charge it find out that the computer will go crazy once u boost about 6-7 psi, and then the car wont run. now the 3sgte has things that i couldnt deal with also like "safe mode" when ever you boost the engine over 14 or 15 psi it goes into safe mode, which is great for protecting the engine, but once it goes into safe mode the boost gets knocked down to 3 or 4 psi intill u shut the car off and restart it, i know i would be pissed if i was racing someone and it went into "safe mode" costing me the race. but that all can be elliminated with the stand alone. oh yeah dont forget the clutch
 

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Wow it sounds like you really know your stuff.
well from reading over this topic i was wondering if it would be as big of a projest to put a turbo on an older celica.  I have thought about it for a long time and never found any one with any reall knoledge on what needs to be done to put a turbo on my car. I have a 86 gt-s with a 3sge j-spec 2.0 DOHC engine with a little under 30k on it. how big and how much money are we talking here. thanks for any help you can give
 

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hey man look at the first post in this topic sent by onyx dragon, he is in the same perditament as you. that should give you a good idea.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Originally posted by sleepercelica@Aug. 08 2002,6:22
Wow it sounds like you really know your stuff.
well from reading over this topic i was wondering if it would be as big of a projest to put a turbo on an older celica.  I have thought about it for a long time and never found any one with any reall knoledge on what needs to be done to put a turbo on my car. I have a 86 gt-s with a 3sge j-spec 2.0 DOHC engine with a little under 30k on it. how big and how much money are we talking here. thanks for any help you can give
Wow..Apparently the J-Spec swap is a more popular swap than I thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Originally posted by jhull@Aug. 14 2002,09:25
j spec is the only engine you can find with low miles..
First question to the jspec being low mileage.  Why?

Next, a sponsor for my local chapter of club grand prix quoted me $550 for the engine swap.  Is that a decent deal?  Seems to me it is, I was expecting no less than $1500.
 
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