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jhull, you should have your own show... You’ve already answered all my questions re: turbo’ing my 5sfe, thanks. So, does anyone realize that 40 hp is almost 33% (1/3) of a stock 5sfe? Hel-lo!?! Are we going to spend our days jer*ing *ff to sportcompactcar every night, dreaming of the day we’ll be able to go fast, or think real. Lemme tell yall who don’t know, jhull- he’s crazy... he basically spent over $6000  on his drivetrain, alone. And did all the work himself. Which means us non-mechanics would be lookin’ at $10000. (-ten thousand dollars)  This is w/o pretty wheels, ground effects or neon. He is very serious about speed. This is a bit more than  a hobby for him. ...My point is, most of us are not jhull. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have a car that can keep up with ferraris and the like but I have other priorities (nothing against jhulls’) and don’t have the money or time (or and extra car while all this work is being done) to realize that dream yet. Until then an extra 40-60 horses will do just fine. Actually I don’t think most of yall understand what a headache keeping such a car properly tuned is; constant fiddling, tweaking, caressing... Anyway, my real point is that you can’t find heads, cams or even HEADERS!!! for 5th gens! These are the affordable and relatively easy mods we all want, so to know of an engine with better versions of these is Grrreat!
By the way, with said head swap, will an EMS remove the need for bigger injectors and or a pressure reg? And are the cams meaner enough to warrant a swap. (And,  please, anyone, headers?)
Last thing, What hp gain would you say for a whole top end swap minus the turbo?
Too much radiation, thanks. :crazy:
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Wow, no welcome, no replys...
 Well, I have no problem talking to myself.
More power for less - Part II:
Here's the way to look at it. The ol' intake/header/exhaust combo is a given no matter what you decide to do. They're relatively inexpensive and easy mods. But all they do is allow your engine to breathe like it should. Those horseys are really already there. You have to spend alot of cash just to remove all the restrictive crap put on there for one reason: emissions laws.
That's fine, and there's nothing wrong with simply maximising your Celica's peppy potential. Suspension mods are fun too, they even MAKE YOU FASTER. Now, not so much if you're just drag racing but power does you no good if you can't get it to the pavement. My stock Camaro has oodles of power but is (was: it's for sale) only good for surfing around corners (& smokeys, of course)with it's bald ass tires in the back. I'm having plenty of fun with my (stock 2.2) 5-speed and good traction. I lost all comers today (including a firebird) coming back from buying some cheap gas over the border.
 

 So be (a li'l) focused here, you need to really know what you want. Like I said before, 'racecars' are a headache. And it's never ending. The more you do to your engine, the more the rest of the car needs to be improved to handle it. Then there's the 'need for speed' -disease- that makes you do things like remove your air conditioning (actually if you are interested in power, this saps alot just being in your car), your back seats, sh*t, anything that weighs more than 5lbs and isn't 'completely' necessary gets eyed suspiciously after a while. Especially when you get beat the night before.
 Here's the deal, (hey, I've got 76800 characters to use) If you just want a li'l pep in your step every now and then... ( :crazy: no!...he doesn't dare mention that! :butbut: ) yes, bottles aren't just for babys anymore.
Really, I know we are a performance oriented group here but I get the feeling most here (including me) are neither mechanics nor rich. We're still talking a few paychecks but WAY less hassle. Almost everyone agrees, any stock engine can handle at least a 25% boost (assuming you take proper precautions, of course) relatively regularly and suffer no damage. Probably much less than you redlining every gear every day just to feel like a contender. You keep your fuel economy and your reliablilty intact and save yourself alot of headache. If installed properly it is basically maintenance free.
 

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well this makes a 5sge.
or a stroked 3sge. hp depends on tuning, compression ratio, and what head gets used. i would use a 2nd or 3rd gen head, 2nd gen head is probrolly going to be the easiest to find, and you will need the complete top end. head, intake manifold, fuel rail, injectors, and distributor. another good option is to use a 4th gen gts intake manifold, they have the first gen 3sge engines which have a side feed intake manifold. and will bolt to the 2nd gen 3sgte heads. once you have all that you will need a new timing belt and headgasket, the headgasket you will have to do a little research to find out what size you will want. you will need a 3sgte headgasket, but the thickness has to be researched because thats going to adjust the compression ratio of the engine. if your going to stay n/a i would go with a 10:1 or maybe 10.5:1 compression ratio, i wouldnt go any higher as higher would probrolly need race fuel. a 3sgte timing belt is needed. assemble all of this then your machanical part is done. next for electrical, computer... your best bet is ems, which one you use is up to you, but do some research, you want to make sure you have a tuner around that is familiar with what ever you get, so when its ready to be tweeked there wont be a issue finding somewhere to have it done, tuning is expensive, if you can get as much as you can tuned before sending it out, make sure its 100% together, starts and runs ect... cause tuning cost about $200/hr and this can save you a couple hours of there time. with this setup i would expect to be around 180hp which would make a fun ride for you guys, and a boat load of mods available. parts for this wont be to bad i wouldnt expect to pay more then 4-500 for the parts, ems depends on what one you choose to use. many mr2 users use this one which is really cheap http://www.diyautotune.com/
 

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so i have really been considering doing this and i know a guy who will perform all the swapping needed if i get parts... what am i looking at for parts? (price and part wise) i will figure in labor afterwards. but this would be worth it to me since i cant get a turbo'ed car and i intend on keeping my car
thx
 

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basicly what you need is the whole top end from a 3sgte (complete head, dizzy, injectors, fuel rail, intake manfold, ect...) get the engine harness, ecu, mass air meter, ignitor, coil, resistor pack, I believe thats about it. cost for parts... kinda hard to say i would expect to pay for used decient parts about $400 you might be able to find a better deal... look around..
another option is to find your self a 4th gen gts engine. thats got a 3sge in it.. the heads are very similiar, im sure all the parts would be cheaper to go this route, but the wiring of the harness would probrolly be harder. and finding upgrades (cams ect...) is much harder with this engine.
 

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well the 3sge head is basicly the same as a 3sgte head, only major difference is the cams. the 3sgte cams are more for a turbo car, and the 3sge cams are a duration that suits a na better. but they both have the same size valves, same ports, tvis ect... Personally i like the 3sge intake manifold more then the 3sgte one i have a 3sge manifold on my 3sgte head.
 

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If you keep it NA i would expect about a 20hp/lbs increase. if you go turbo expect over a 100hp/lbs increase @7psi . the other great thing about it is as long as the bottom end can handle it your redline will go up to 7400 rpms and there are much more upgrades available for it.
 

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both heads will handle the higher redline, but a 3sgte head will be easier to find parts for... Im sure you can work a 3sge head just as much but parts might be a little harder to fine. (cams valve springs retainers ect...)
 

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sorry for the triple post but will the 3sge intake manifold bolt directly on after the head swap or will i need to do more custom work?
thx
 

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I have a few questions
wouldn't the crankshaft and camshaft be off enough so the timing belt wont line up. and if they line up why not swap camshafts

I thought the USA 3sge's had roughly the same amount of Horsepower as the 5sfe

wouldn't there be a displacement drop and most likely a drop in torque from this kind of swap.

has anybody ever done this and if so any dyno numbers.
 

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wait im getting confused are you talking about putting the 3s intake manifold on the 5sfe? if so no that wont even come close to fitting. the intake runners are like half the diameter on the 5sfe.

It has been done before its basicly making a stroked 3sgte.
you use a 3s timing belt.
1st gen 3sge's have the same amount of hp as the 5sfe, but its .2 litres less, would it add 50hp probrolly not but it would give you a nice difference while making a great start to a project.
you cant swap cams because the 5sfe head is just simply trash for performance, the 5sfe head isnt even close to the 3sge head.
 
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