Toyota Celica Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts
M

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
<font color='#000000'>My 20 yr old son just came home from college, 3qts low oil, filled it up and two days later while running it about 75mph the engine was making a noise, lost compression.  When he tried to pull over to side of road , at 50 mph the car just shut down and he coasted to the side of the highway.  The car is a 1990 celica GT 2 door liftback and the body has no rust, and several new parts, struts, tires, and had all new belts, hoses, and gaskets including head done June 2002.  The car never burned oil or had it coming out of tail pipe until this auto repair place did the head.  There is a black tar like cauking around where the head is toqured down, looks like rubber stuff.  It has been melting away from the head so now you can't see the glob of black stuff just the melted part.  I had it towed to Belle Tire thinking that the timming belt broke, but I thought that odd since I paid to have it replaced 2002 along with all the other work.  To my suprise they told me I needed a new engine, the mech took one listen and said I need a new motor.  HELP --  I have priced used, rebuilt and such, the prices are terrible, and I really don't know what to do, I love the car, but is it worth it.
</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,733 Posts
<font color='#000F22'>why not?
if she found someone selling a 5sfe she could probrolly get it for cheap. I seen some people sell these engines in good running condition for 300 bucks. sounds like the old machinic used gasket maker for the head gasket.... dont know why they  would do that never seen that used on a head before...</font>
 
M

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
<font color='#000000'>I did post my need for an engine on another web site and received 15 responses, three of them purchase their engines straight from Japan and test them out first before bringing back to USA.  The engine I'm looking at has 55,000 miles, guarantee is 6 months unlimited miles but is the 3sgte engine.
It was explained to me that the 3S and the 5E have the same block and are pretty much the same engine except for where it bolts in the frame. The guy I talked to said I should buy a new timming belt for the 3sgte and to not use the one off my old 5e engine.  The price including shipping is $600 from NY.  I believe the flywheel has to be changed out as well, I don't think I can use the one from my old engine being a 5e.  Any suggestions on conversion or things to watch out for changing from a 5e to a 3s????????????????????</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,025 Posts
Originally posted by Mercymom1@May 24 2004,8:01
<font color='#000000'>I did post my need for an engine on another web site and received 15 responses, three of them purchase their engines straight from Japan and test them out first before bringing back to USA.  The engine I'm looking at has 55,000 miles, guarantee is 6 months unlimited miles but is the 3sgte engine.
It was explained to me that the 3S and the 5E have the same block and are pretty much the same engine except for where it bolts in the frame. The guy I talked to said I should buy a new timming belt for the 3sgte and to not use the one off my old 5e engine.  The price including shipping is $600 from NY.  I believe the flywheel has to be changed out as well, I don't think I can use the one from my old engine being a 5e.  Any suggestions on conversion or things to watch out for changing from a 5e to a 3s????????????????????</font>
<font color='#000000'>the 3s and 5s are not entirely the same engine block, that's why they call it the 3s series engine and 5s series engine.  somebody's selling you a $600 3sgte engine...  that is quite the steal, but no doubt he's not selling you everything you need.  the 3sgte is a race-inspired engine and if you're buying for $600, it *probably* doesn't include many of the parts you need to have a fully working car (ie wiring harness, ecu, exhaust piping etc)  give him a call and ask if all the parts for the swap you need are included.  if so, you've got quite the bargain going.</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,025 Posts
<font color='#000000'>by the way, did they mention what about the rods was broken?  if they said it was due to the timing belt, then obviously you can't use the timing belt on your 5s on the 3s.  but something sounds fishy if they said the rods were bent due to timing.

i thought the 5s was non-interference, somebody confirm?</font>
 
M

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
<font color='#000000'>Ok, first what is a  non-interference?  The timing belt and tention pieces were fine, they are only 2 years old.  But what happened was we had work done on the head two years ago, and all new belts, hoses, gaskets and such.  The problem was once they finish, the car started to burned oil and everytime you started the car blue smoke came out the tail pipe. The car never did that before the head work, and the reason we took her in was the clutch throw bearing went out.  They did a full eval of the car and stated the head gasket needed replacing, once they did that we had problems with her ever since.  When I take her in for oil changes the mech noticed the black rubber like caulking was melting away from the where the head bolts together.   I couldn't figure out what that was and when I asked the repair person he said that was just excess from when they torqued the head.  I also questioned them on the oil and said cars this age do that, even though it never happened until they messed with the head.  Two years later: The week before the oil was normal level then the next week she was 3 qts low. We put oil in her, and two days later while driving (my son) 70 mph on his way to 80 mph he heard a noise and noticed the car was losing speed.  He pulled over to the far lane slowed down to 55 mph and the car shut off completely.  He was told it lost compression and believe it's bent or broken rods from the sounds of the car when you turn her up.  
    Should I stay with the same type of engine, 5s?????</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
0 Posts
<font color='#000000'>i'd say it depends whos gonna be driving it.  If the driver wants the extra performance of a 3SGTE and possibly the extra price of that engine, go for it.  If the driver isnt too worried about performance and wants to save some, go for the 5S-FE.  and another thing, the 5S-FE will be easier to install b/c its a direct replacement.  Im sure there are some people on this site (especially the 5th generation forumn) that can help you out with the installation

By the way, do you still have the names of those sites where you found the engine at?  I might want to do a swap.  ;)</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,733 Posts
<font color='#000F22'>running without oil can do some major damage. but i would say his bearings are gone. 9 out of 10 times thats the first to go, making a really loud tap and the car wont run well at all. if it even runs. I bet right now it will start but knock like crazy . i doubt he broke the rods.
rubber gasket on the head... not a good sign that shouldnt be used on a head gasket. when replacing a headgasket you have the head machined so its completely flat and just use the headgasket there is no need to use a silicone gasket maker. i sure as hell hope they put a real headgasket in there and just didnt try to silicone it. from what you are explaning it sounds like 1 of two things happened. 1 they never had the head machined so they tryed to seal it with the silicone, or two they had it machined and didnt use a headgasket....the main thing i think is your headgasket never seated causing excess oil to dump into the cylinders.
So first thing is first, find a new machinic. dont go back to where you went from the start.
just as stspiffy said theres no way you are getting a 3sgte with all that is needed for that cheap. 3sgte's use the same blocks but the bore is smaller. and the stroke is also less. but for the most part they are the same and most parts are interchangeable between the 5s and the 3s. the 3s uses the same motor mounts as the 5sfe it would bolt into the car and also bolt onto the 5sfe tranny. the 5sfe tranny is weaker tho and could be a problem down the road. another thing is just like stspiffy said putting a 3s in there is a swap, and will need a lot more parts then just the engine. you would have to make sure the engine came with all the sensors. and the turbo. then from there the exhaust in the car would have to be redone to match the down pipe off the turbo. you would need the COMPLETE 3sgte harness (not cut) and a 3sgte computer. other parts needed are intercooler, ignitor, mass air meter, and some other small things. pretty much when doing a 3sgte swap its always best to buy a alltrac clip (a celica with a 3sgte engine cut in half and the whole front is sent to you.) this ensures you get everything you need for the swap. but cost on a clip is closer to 2500.00 shipped.
3sgte is a really good engine. i swapped my 5s for one. and would never regreat it. but i also was looking for something to work. if I was in your shoes id do the swap. but i dont know what you are more or less looking for. if your looking for a realiable daily driver with some fun behind it then stick with the 5sfe. if your looking to modify the car and would wish to make it a really fun fast car the go with the 3sgte. when swapping you use the 3sgte flywheel and pressure plate with a 5sfe clutch disc. the stock one wont do the job tho you would need a high performance clutch for this.</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,733 Posts
<font color='#000F22'>ok there seams to be a misunderstanding here.... in the 5th gen forum you said they are trying to sell you a 3sge engine. which makes more sence at that price. the last post still is correct except you wont need the turbo and intercooler.
what are they taking this engine out of? would have to be a 4th gen celica gts.... which wouldnt be worth the work required. the harnesses are completely different and would require a lot of rewiring. I would deffiently steer clear of that one. its a great engine but its not going to be worth the extra work you be required to put into it. im sure you would have to have it done for you which would most likely cost a twice as much of the engine.
they told you that the 5sfe is a known problem..... that is very interesting, for some reason they want you to go with the 3sge most likely they are over stocked in it or they cant get a 5sfe. 5sfe's are one of toyotas most reliable engines. I think most 5sfes get over 250k miles. I cant believe they would say something like that. if it was a 3sgte id say if you dont mind swapping do it, but a 3sge isnt worth a swap.</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,025 Posts
Originally posted by jhull@May 24 2004,5:13
<font color='#000000'>what are they taking this engine out of? would have to be a 4th gen celica gts.... which wouldnt be worth the work required.</font>
<font color='#000000'>possible it's a 3sge imported from japan straight out of one of the ssii or ssiii, if it comes with everything then it's a straight bolt on

mercy, a non-interference engine is an engine where the length of the valve is short enough to clear the head during the compression stroke so as they don't collide (this is the big problem that causes you to have to perform engine overhauls when your timing belt breaks)  in the case of non-interference engines then there would be no valve breaking and you'd have a new timing belt installed and reset.</font>
 
M

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
<font color='#000000'>WOW   Thanks all for the information,  I will not be going with the 3s now after reading all changes and extra money it would take to have it installed.  I will be staying with the 5e.  
As for the web site--  I did provide the name of the company earlier, here is the contact person and their email address in NY to purchase trans or motors.
Gary B. <[email protected]>
    This guy Gary even sent me a picture of the axle bracket where the center punch marks are to drill out to mount the 3e engine.  He is with Motorworks Premium Used Engine and Transmission Warehouse  1(866)Japan-NY   1(866)527-2669

THANKS EVERYONE THIS HAS BEEN JUST A BLESSING FOR ME</font>
 
M

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
<font color='#000000'>Ok forgivenss Please!  I sent the web site to Gary and he reviewed my posting and this is what he said.
Dear Marsha,

I took a look at your forum posting. Unfortunately you were a little confused. What we are offering is a Japanese (JDM) 3SFE Late to replace a 5SFE. Your posting says 3SGTE which is a very different engine, which explains their opinions about the swap.

So the engine he has is a 3SFE "Late" SOOOO  if any of you know about this engine  I still need HELP   I have never heard of a "late engine"  but I do know it came after mine.  So any help I can get would be appreciated.  Sorry,  must be that over 50 thing again.  LOL</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,733 Posts
<font color='#000F22'>ah....
3sfe, pretty much the same block and head as the 5sfe just a little bit smaller version. much easier swap, but still i think you will need the 3sfe computer. i dont know if the 5sfe computer will work with it, they are very similiar engines they even look alike. but still i believe it should be a bolt in you shouldnt have to modify anything or drill anything on the car this engine should set right in and bolt up.</font>
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top