basic hp mods - Page 2 - Toyota Celica Forum
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-17-2015, 03:22 PM
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Without the cat the O2 sensor won't work properly and the computer will get all sorts of weird data and error codes. I don't think our cars can run well without the cat.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-17-2015, 11:30 PM
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Lightforce has been around here for a while and he knows what he's talking about.

You have a GT, a n/a GT reaching 200hp would cost a ridiculous amount of money. You can only get so far with an exhaust and intake... lol, I'd say if you got the best straight exhaust system plus a cold air intake you may squeeze about 15 hp.

Read this: How to make good NA (Naturally Aspirated) Power on your Celica - NewCelica.org Forum

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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-18-2015, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Danny the hero View Post
Lightforce has been around here for a while and he knows what he's talking about.

You have a GT, a n/a GT reaching 200hp would cost a ridiculous amount of money. You can only get so far with an exhaust and intake... lol, I'd say if you got the best straight exhaust system plus a cold air intake you may squeeze about 15 hp.

Oh and guys, I've removed the cat on a 1991 ST and put a header pack on the engine and it sparked right up and ran great! No funny computer codes or what ever else you were thinking. It ran so good I got $2000.00 for it on CL. I only paid $650.00 for it. And it had 230,000 miles on it. You can see pictures of it over on my

Read this: How to make good NA (Naturally Aspirated) Power on your Celica - NewCelica.org Forum
Your User info says you've been around here since 2013 Danny, Lightforce joined up a month before you did. I joined in 2011. I'm 63 years old and know a thing or two. But as I said your free to believe what ever you like. If you bother reading the specs you would note the O2 senser is in the same place it always is on the header. Back pressure is back pressure, a little less is a good thing. I never said anything about 200hp, your putting words in my mouth Danny. I've already performed this operation on a 1991 ST. Works great!

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-18-2015, 09:47 AM
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Your User info says you've been around here since 2013 Danny, Lightforce joined up a month before you did. I joined in 2011. I'm 63 years old and know a thing or two. But as I said your free to believe what ever you like. If you bother reading the specs you would note the O2 senser is in the same place it always is on the header. Back pressure is back pressure, a little less is a good thing. I never said anything about 200hp, your putting words in my mouth Danny. I've already performed this operation on a 1991 ST. Works great!
In my defense, I wasn't talking to you. I never read your post, I just read the first 3 or 4 between lightforce and OP.

Also, I don't think it's fair to compare a 5th gen with a 7th gen.

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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-18-2015, 11:58 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Danny the hero View Post
In my defense, I wasn't talking to you. I never read your post, I just read the first 3 or 4 between lightforce and OP.

Also, I don't think it's fair to compare a 5th gen with a 7th gen.
Yeah 5 gen> 7 gen

still not low enough /:



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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-18-2015, 01:34 PM
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I like the older cars on the outside, but I always preferred modern interiors.

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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-18-2015, 07:49 PM
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I know on my GTS there is an O2 sensor before and after the cat, which is a clear indicator that the cat is expected to change something. Isn't the GT put together in the same manner, or does it not have an O2 sensor after the cat? If it does, then deleting the cat isn't a good idea. I've also read numerous reports across the internet saying that any car with a configuration like the GTS and a ECU controlled ignition cycle will run into problems if the cat is removed. Now, I do know the cat restricts flow, and you should gain a few HP from removing it and can safely do it if you run an aftermarket ECU that is programmed to not utilize O2 levels. Of course, the cat is there for a reason in terms of safety and environmental reasons and there is a huge fine if you are caught having removed it on the street.

Looking at the GT and GTS headers, the GTS clearly appears superior, as it utilizes mandrel bent 'equal length' piping to synchronize the exhaust pulses. The GT header does not have this and directly combines the pipes as simply as possible. If the aftermarket GT header went to the GTS's design, in theory it should make a difference, but I looked at a number of basic aftermarket options and they appear to RETAIN the exact same pipe design as the OEM Toyota header, but they are stainless or ceramic coated. It doesn't look like the stock header is cast either, it appears to be multi-piece with true smooth wall piping. The gains from any of the $100-$400 headers I saw should be extremely minimal to zero. I'd say put a stainless GTS header on, but I am fairly sure it won't fit since it is a completely different block and not just a tune up. The only header that is actually designed in a way to increase flow is the PPE header that goes for $700.

I have talked to numerous guys who drove and modified cars in the 70's and 80's and the consensus was that smaller changes like headers and exhaust back then tended to make a bigger difference than it does today. A lot of OEM optimization has occurred over the years and many designs only found in aftermarket high performance parts decades ago can now be found in relatively affordable cars. The Celica in particular is designed pretty well and is difficult to affordably improve upon. Toyota didn't do certain things advantageous to speed out of concern for legality, longevity, cost, and convenience. Hence, most things used to improve our cars will almost always come at an extreme cost, violation of the law, or severely diminishing driving convenience. That PPE header design wasn't used not because Toyota didn't know how to make it, but because it is much harder to instal and costs considerably more to manufacture. Anything in the same general format as the stock header, Toyota would have implemented into the design.

Even the less expensive N/A mods come at some form of cost, such as increasing the rev limit which will decrease valvetrain life and must be paid attention to and maintenanced every 5 years or so to ensure spring rate is adequate for that redline and you don't ram a piston into a valve.
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-19-2015, 02:40 AM
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"I have talked to numerous guys who drove and modified cars in the 70's and 80's"
If that's the case then I'm sure you've got everything figured out and there is no need for anyone else to comment.

I made a few harmless suggestions, you want to display your hubris.

Not what most of us come here for.

Peace out..............
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-19-2015, 06:56 PM
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I'm not trying to insult you are anything, but I have already done plenty of research specifically on header upgrades for the 7th gen. I know it tends to be a good upgrade for various cars (many have cast headers or very inefficient economy designs), but I have good reason to believe a basic upgrade isn't a worthwhile purchase for this car.

Just because I am trying to debate a topic does not mean I am showing disrespect.
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-19-2015, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Force View Post
Just because I am trying to debate a topic does not mean I am showing disrespect.
This.

Codestar, no one here is trying to give you a hard time. My job here is to moderate posts and I see nothing wrong. You are taking this all too personally. Lighten up man

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