One More Overheat Thread 01 1zz - Toyota Celica Forum
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-31-2020, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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Default One More Overheat Thread 01 1zz

Hi!


Sorry if I am violating forum protocols, I know some places are very picky about first posts.


I have been researching all the forums I could find on this issue; I can't solve it, and I really can't afford to take it to the dealership, whom I have concerns with anyway, and I don't have a relationship with any of the import shops in my area. Plus, I really don't want the car downed for two weeks while they get around to it.




01 Celica. Not sure if it is a GT or GT-S (badge fell off years ago). No factory power windows or locks. 133k on the odometer. Drives just fine, no weird sounds or behaviors. No modifications, no racing, two owners, we are the second. In fact, I don't think it has even seen 7k rpms. (shrugs). I've never even seen the check engine light; I regularly maintain it using the pdf factory manuals. Was the wife's 10 mile round trip work car. Now it is my interstate (that's the freeway for the rest of you lol) car.


I have put 8k interstate miles with light city stop and go, very little idling.


Now it is overheating. I had noticed some white wispy 'smoke' from the tailpipe, so I start monitoring the overflow, add coolant (the correct, high dollar stuff) maybe monthly.


Maybe a few months later, take off, no heat. several miles later, temp gauge went up and started flashing, never saw that before. Pull over, and the coolant overflow is empty. Think I filled it up, went on, no more issues. Went home and researched it, and apparently there is an involved process and no two people do it the same.


So, spend a day with the overflow dangling from the hood (later see there is a pocket for it to rest on the hood latch). Squeeze various hoses, heater on/off, shake the car laterally and vertically, bubbles burp out, etc etc. Think I am ok.



Take off, and don't get 15 miles before it is flashing again. Limp it home, read and watch youtube some more.


Refill and burp differently. Last time I left the caps off. This time, after it gets hot, and I don't see any bubbles in the chamber where the hose coming from the top of the radiator, I cap it. Occasionally, I crack the butterfly and rad fill cap, slight psh but nothing major.


Interstate again, and flashing again. Open the rad cap to refill, and whoosh, fluid fills back up to the full level. Close cap, drives fine for a few days. Then overheats again.



I limp it to Auto Zone for a rental compression tester. Get halfway home, and friend texts me that he has mine and has forgotten to return it... for a few years (I just thought I couldn't find it).



Plugs look basically ok. Not black, or coked up. Pressure after about 8 cranks is pretty much 210psi. (from the passenger side towards the driver side, first was 210, second was slightly over 210, third and forth were very slightly (like one gauge needle width) under 210.) I know it's not important, but none really bled down quickly, either.



So, now I'm stumped. I know on certain Fords, you see the steam because the exhaust fills with condensation (I've seen them burble like a submarine). I have read over and over and over the 1ZZ-FE does not kill head gaskets. This one consumes oil, but I don't think the head is warped due to the pressure readings. No milky in the oil cap or on the deflector in the hole. Rad fluid is bright red, doesn't smell like exhaust when I see the occasional bubbles. I see a stream coming from the hose from the top of the radiator, so I believe the pump is at least marginally ok. And, I see a change after the engine is hot, and the fans cycle once or twice, so I think the thermostat is sort of functioning. Lastly, after driving it, cracking the overflow lid doesn't make a huge 'pssssssh', like I'd expect if combustion gases were escaping into the coolant, but there is a sharp 'psh', so I sort of think the cap is ok.


I don't want to sell it, but I need one reliable car. Anyone got any ideas?
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-02-2020, 12:58 PM
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If you are losing and have to add coolant, there must be leaks somewhere in the engine. You have to fix this leak or it may burst in a drive and cook the engine. If there is no coolant, the cockpit heater will not work and you will have no heat.

Check the floor under the engine to see if there are coolant. Does the engine smell like burned coolant?

Some leaks are small and only spray out steam. Run the engine at night to normal operating temp and cooling fans start running. Shine a bright light into different areas in the engine to find any steam or smoke. It may be small leaks in any coolant hoses around the engine. if found, hoses should be replaced.

Good luck.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-06-2020, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not sure what the issue is, but, the fans haven't run in several start cycles now. I monitor the head temp and coolant temp with an IR thermometer, even the exhaust manifold cover.


Now I have done a coolant block test with the pretty blue water. No green/yellow change, (turns watery yellow in the exhaust coming from the tailpipe). Spent about twenty minutes, occasional 3k rpm excursions, nothing.


I did find a small leak coming from the drivers' side main hose. Checked the (nipple? port? plastic part of the radiator) didn't see any obvious cracks, so I got a worm gear clamp, tossed the factory pincher clamp, and that stopped that.


Now I am seeing a plip plip plip at the bottom corner of the passenger side, coolant cap on (pressurized) or open to the outside. I ran my borescope around down there, but all I could see was that the radiator facing the fans was dry except for that bottom corner. Looking through the outside, the entire outer core is wet, but it has been raining a lot, so... inconclusive. Don't see any dings, and I clean the radiator core once a season with coil cleaner and flushing from the fans outward.


The heat has returned to the cabin, so I know I got that air lock / bubble solved.



My buddy suggests the thermostat may have been the issue. Looks like I am disassembling to get the radiator loose then pressure testing it now.



Thought I would update people who might come across this thread, thanks for the response, too!
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-06-2020, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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Oh, one more quick note - I had *no* idea that car had a cabin air filter. Plenty of air coming through, hot or cold. Saw a video looking at problems, and watched a guy, went in there, and sure as heck, there it was. The most filthy, nasty, clogged... you know those example filters at the parts store, and you roll your eyes and think, what schmuck would ever do that?


...


yep. I'm apparently that guy. Strangely enough, Auto Zone had one in stock; it wasn't exactly like the one I pulled out, but it was close enough. (shrugs) lesson learned.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-19-2020, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
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This is more of a diary in case someone else goes down this road. I don't expect anyone to read it. It's a 1ZZ motor, by the way.


Lesseee... I took the block test rental back, and rented a pressure tester. Pulled the radiator out, pressurized it and... sure enough, a stream came out with each pump, in the drivers' side bottom facing the fans. Ordered a new radiator online, like 50 bucks shipped, seemed like a better deal than a trip to the radiator shop for rehab.



Also ordered a thermostat, tstat gasket, upper and lower radiator hoses, and a radiator cap.



Radiator came in like two days early. Then the hoses from auto zone. They didn't give me the tstat and gasket when I ordered the hoses from their hub, so there was a little issue when I picked the hoses up.


Get home, get everything laid out, wrong lower hose. So, there's a lost day.


Take it back, show them. Sticker matches correct. McDonald's menu picture looks like my hose (that I had to slit to get off the motor side so it wasn't like I could just reuse them.) Hose they handed me, and it was my fault, I should have been paying attention, looked NOTHING like the lower hose.


No problem sir, sorry about this, we will order another one, and I promise it will be right.




Another three days. I try to swap the thermostat. What a mess! I watched some russian on youtube and read the factory service manual, seems easy enough.


The alternator bushing on this one was out juuuust a little; so no way was a socket going on the bottom nut. Or a long wrench. Or a stubby wrench. Or a deep well socket. Or any mix of the above, in any size (1/4, 3/8, 1/2) with a u-joint / knuckle. Top of the thermostat nut was a direct drive.


Tried pulling the bolt then prying on the bushing. Tried putting the bolt in a couple of threads and sort of tapping on the bolt, screwdriver prying, fit an open end wrench in there. Nope. Did I mention that it has alternately been either raining, snowing, frozen or a combination of these last few weeks?


Went looking for a crowfoot. Also ordered a serpentine belt and a hydraulic tensioner off eBay, if I was going to have to take the alt off, might as well replace the belt, and apparently the tensioners can go bad, so, ****, why not?


Auto zone does not sell single crowfoot (crowfeet?). $25 later, I have a complete set. I'm almost 50, I've never, ever, EVER needed one before, now I got like ten.


This does, eventually sort of work. Bright spot, my lower hose comes in! Go down there, wrong **** hose AGAIN. Show the lady manager person. Does that photo (not even a line drawing, an actual PICTURE) look like that hose right there?


No.



Sorry sir, this is terrible, can't understand how this could have happened.



Twice, ma'am. This has happened twice.



Oh. Well, give us a chance to make it right. Let us order one more from the hub. Be here Tuesday. Promise it will be right.



K den


Reverse flush the engine and heater core. Little red little brown comes out, mostly clear. Put the celica on the battery charger, because it's been sitting for a few days now.



Tuesday comes and goes without a call.



I buy a cheap 10mm deepwell socket from a pawn shop. I cut a chunk out of the side. I use this to tighten that lower nut down a quarter turn at a time. Dumb, but if it works....


Come home today to an enormous box on the porch. It is the size of two car batteries side to side. Inside is the belt. Just the belt and a ton of air pouches. I paid extra for a Gates belt. They send some off brand, so... initiate a return with Ebay. Hose is in!


Go down there, and.... yup. Another mislabeled hose. Give me my money back. Now. We can do in-store credit. Um, no, I am done with Auto Zone forever. You've jacked me up and left me without a working car for weeks now. Put it back on my card, or give me cash. Now.



Ok sir, very sorry.



Leave there, drive directly to Oreilly's (I don't even know how to spell them, never been in there). They say, mmm. We may have one here. (Seriously? ). Sorry, nope, have it here by 430pm.



K den.


Sure as ****, right hose. Gates product. Cheaper than Auto Zone. Same day.



Fly home, light's fading and it's supposed to snow again tomorrow.



Throw everything back in. Start loading coolant.


Park it on a severe incline, put the overflow bottle up on the hood latch, shake the car and fluff the throttle, watch occasional pretty bubbles for an hour or so. Drive it down the road and back.


I AM BACK AT SQUARE ONE AGAIN. No leaks this time, but no heat in the cabin. Blowing cold air, engine temp gauge at peg 2.


That says there is a bubble in there.



Shouldn't pressure be building up when I drive it?
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
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I spent a night trying to get the thing to blow hot air. Even parked on a SUPER steep driveway. No dice.


Today, I go out, reset the overflow tank (anybody notice it has like multiple chambers?), start it up, let it idle, and now... there's heat!


do the occasional rev thing, get to where there is no foam, no bubbles in the one hose outlet in the overflow tank, then let it cool off.



Put it all back, stopcock and cap back on, let it idle back up to temp, seems ok, so drive it on a back road, then the interstate.


NO OVERHEATING.


Get it home, inspect everything, don't see any coolant, but now I have a transmission fluid leak. Think it is coming from both of the trans hose barbs on the radiator, guessing I didn't tighten down the compression fittings enough (plastic tanks make me wary). Noticed it because I basically detailled the engine compartment while sitting there waiting for parts, so, I cleaned the fluid off, gingerly tightened the fittings some more, then parked on flat land, ran it through the gear positions, and checked the fluid with it still running. It is showing a little high on the COLD marks.



Car may not be hot enough after sitting a little bit in 40 degree weather, so I will drive it to the parts store, check it there, and add some if it needs it. Otherwise, think this journey is over! Thanks for reading.


Sum up - Radiator exchange isn't too bad. Hose replacements aren't too bad - if the radiator is out. That thermostat is a pain in the balls, go ahead and take the alternator off. Getting the air out of these cars cooling systems - miserably involved. Never even attempted to touch the bleed valves concerned they would snap off or something.


Thanks again!
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-24-2020, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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another day in the rain.


Flare nuts appear to be seeping. Checked the cones and the flares, don't see or feel any burrs. Carefully put the cone on the flare, and use a little more psi than I normally would.


I cannot tell if it is spewing, or dripping. See some places where atf could be hitting, or it could be rainwater mixing. Touching under the flare fittings with a piece of toilet paper, I get either one or two spots (like it is coming from the stem AND the threads) or a thin solid line.


I am out of time today, gonna put a camera in there and run it on the interstate again and see how much comes out of the fitting, then go from there I suppose. I am having a GREAT deal of trouble reading the dipstick, but I think I'll start a new thread for the new problem. (I found nothing on the topic when I searched, but, maybe my google-fu was weak today).



Cooling - I can hear a very occasional burble as it (I guess) goes through the heater core. Haven't lost any coolant, line is exactly where I left it, heat is good, and the thermometer gauge pretty much remained on the second peg, where it lived before this adventure. I'll check for leaks around the tstat neck and where the hoses clamp on, then I am cautiously... gingerly ready to call that a solved complaint!
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-08-2020, 03:08 PM
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Congrats for solving your overheat problem.

While burping the radiator, you dont have to park on the incline to raise the car's head. Park at level is OK. Just follow the factory procedure and you will burp most of the air from the radiator the second time the rad fans turn on then turn off.

After that just cap everything off. The smaller air blocks will eventually work themselves out through the coolant reservoir.

Agree that swapping the rad is not bad of a job. I would buy the Denso OEM rad (about $70) to make sure it lasts. I am an amateur but pried up the bumper top, instead of removing the whole thing, and got the job done in less than 1.5 hours, while doing a lot of research to make sure.

The 2 thermostat nuts can be removed without removing the alternator and the drive belt. Use a flat box or ratchet wrench to move them out. Resintalling the drive belt usually needs 2 guys with a long breaker bar on the 19 mm dead hex head, which is a pain in the ass. It saves you a lot of time if you dont have to do it.

Congrats. Never surrender to the dumb machine. You won. You are a hero conquering this problem! I abused my GTS with a 2ZZ engine, no oil change, broken coolant hose, over heat, engine banging ect.. but logged over 300K miles, still drive weekly long trips at high speed everything works and runssmooth like silk.

The Celica is the last sports car designed from the ground up by Toyota, very versatile and high performance, a great system design. It will be a collectors' car in a few years.

If you have a chance, buy a GTS with the 2ZZ engine, the same engine design as the $500K Lexus LFA super car, with the Yamaha head with high-speed cams and valves sytem. That engine would scream like a jet engine at 8000 RPM hehe. The GTS has stiffer suspensions, holds twisty roads like on rail.
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Last edited by PETER PAN 2009; 03-08-2020 at 03:15 PM.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-31-2020, 05:02 PM
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One more note, if there is still heater problem after long burping, there must be a highly compressed air bubble in the cooling system. Wait for the engine to cool down to warm, then open the reservoir cap to let the bubble out.

The reservoir would make a big puffing noise as the compressed air blows out. If you open the reservoir when engine is hot, the compressed air will blow out some coolant with it. be careful and dont get burned.
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