how bad can the 5sfe be? - Toyota Celica Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 09:40 AM
iceman
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I'm having trouble believing that the 5sfe is really awful. It is the same size as the 3sgte in terms of displacement. Can't you get the same horsepower out of the 5sfe with a bit of work? I know you can turbocharge the 5sfe. With minor mods, i know you can get 200 horsepower out of it. Not to mention the reliability of the 5sfe is second to none. The 2006 corolla se has a 1.8 liter engine and produces 108 hp, and the 2006 corolla xrs has the same 1.8 liter engine in it, but produces 164 hp. I understand that there is a difference between the vvt-i and the vvtl-i, but i know that it doesnt produce 60 more hp. Personally i think that the 5sfe is plenty. I've never had trouble beating my buddies hondas. Maybe i'm wrong, some of you older guys that are more experienced, please fill me in.
 
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 10:50 AM
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QUOTE (iceman @ Dec 4 2006, 09:40 AM)
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I'm having trouble believing that the 5sfe is really awful. It is the same size as the 3sgte in terms of displacement. Can't you get the same horsepower out of the 5sfe with a bit of work? I know you can turbocharge the 5sfe. With minor mods, i know you can get 200 horsepower out of it. Not to mention the reliability of the 5sfe is second to none. The 2006 corolla se has a 1.8 liter engine and produces 108 hp, and the 2006 corolla xrs has the same 1.8 liter engine in it, but produces 164 hp. I understand that there is a difference between the vvt-i and the vvtl-i, but i know that it doesnt produce 60 more hp. Personally i think that the 5sfe is plenty. I've never had trouble beating my buddies hondas. Maybe i'm wrong, some of you older guys that are more experienced, please fill me in.[/B]
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 10:51 AM
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5SFE is 2.2L, 3SGTE is 2.0

I have never heard of anyone getting 200 horsepower out of a 5SFE with "minor" modification. Adding a turbocharger to this engine is definitely not a minor mod.

There are major differences in head design, which drastically effects the amount of airflow to the engine, in turn affecting the amount of horsepower the car makes. The 5SFE has an FE (economy) head, which is designed for fuel economy. Aside from a turbocharger, the 3SGTE has the GE (performance) head, which is designed to create power. This is one reason a 2.0L N/A 3SGE engine makes more horsepower than the 2.2L 5SFE.

There is no 2006 Corolla SE. The 2006 Corolla CE, LE, and S use the 1ZZFE engine (126hp) while the 2006 Corolla XRS uses the 2ZZGE engine. These are not the same. The VVTL-I does indeed produce significantly more horsepower. Other differences aside, the 2ZZGE has a better flowing head and lift that engages to allow even more air into the engine at higher RPM. In the 7th gen Celica the 2ZZGE is rated at 180hp.


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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 06:12 PM
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Another thing to consider is that, in addition to having an economical F head, the 5SFE is a stroked 3SFE, meaning the engines are the same, except the 5S has a longer stroke length to make the extra .2L of displacement. Now, because of the bore of the engine, the dimensions of the engine are very odd due to the stroking. This means that 1) the redline is low, as is top end power, 2)the engine cannot be easily turboed without extensive modifications because of the longer connecting rods and other parts which can break more easily. And, 3) the engine produces a lot of torque compared to similarly powered engines. In terms of straight numbers for both economy and power, the engine is a great 1990 product, but it is not very easy to modify without rebuilding the engine's internals significantly.
It's not that any one thing makes it tough (there are plenty of stroker 22Rs out there, and the 1MZFE has an F head, but is still often supercharged), but the combination of everything makes the design very unfriendly to typical modders.

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 07:04 PM
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You can turbo the motor along with supporting mods and produce good figures.

But everyone I know who has turbo'ed their 5s has looked to the 3s after some time.


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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 08:17 PM
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My apologies on the corolla. I was reading some bad info. Thanks for everyone filling me in on stuff. Basically your saying that its a good engine, but if you want race quality speed and hp, you need to do an engine swap. Gotcha. So what makes the civics so easy to modify? What do they have that the celica doesnt? Other than looks, obviously. Is it the same situation only with the b-series engines?
 
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 09:12 PM
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B series motors are heavily supported in the aftermarket sector. The Vtec helps airflow, and they have a wider RPM range. The difference with hondas is that those motors are in light little cars. Power to weight ratio wins races.


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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-13-2006, 08:52 PM
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i can't say that i agree w/ you on the looks thing...just a/b all celicas look good if given some tlc. just a matter of opinion i guess, though.

+1 on the fact that most people w/ a turbo 5sfe usually look into a 3s. i would love to do the swap, and i have the 5sfte already. it does pretty good, but just not the same as the 3s.

+1 on the 5sfe being very torquey to. this plus a turbo will do pretty good.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-13-2006, 09:59 PM
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I still think that turboing a 5sfe is like burning your money... it'll cost more then the swap and you won't get the results. Plus the 3S was designed turbo in the first place so reliability is there.


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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-14-2006, 10:05 AM
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Its not as hard to do as a swap thats why people turn to it. You can turbo your 5s in a weekend.


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