Toyota Celica Forum

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-   -   1986 Celica ST 2.0L SOHC 2S-E Model 21 65K Opinion wanted on purchase/vehicle (http://www.toyotacelicas.com/forums/93-fourth-generation/45964-1986-celica-st-2-0l-sohc-2s-e-model-21-65k-opinion-wanted-purchase-vehicle.html)

Alexander Hill 05-22-2011 04:52 PM

1986 Celica ST 2.0L SOHC 2S-E Model 21 65K Opinion wanted on purchase/vehicle
 
1986 Celica ST 2.0L SOHC 2S-E Model 21 65K Opinion wanted on purchase/vehicle
I just purchased a 1986 Toyota Celica model ST coupe model 21 65K with front wheel drive and manual transmission and a fuel injected 2.0 liter single overhead cam engine # 2S-E. It has 114,000 original miles on it. It was purchased from the original owners who were in their late 60's. It came with the original window sticker. Power front disc brakes, power rack and pinion steering, ac, electric rear window defrost, electronic fuel injection engine, 5 speed overdrive transmission, fully independent suspension, reclining cloth bucket seats with memory ( what is that?), center console, intermittent wipers, remote trunk and fuel door release. The car is undented, and has been repainted since the original red paint was faded. The car has been undercoated since new and is not rusted. The car runs like new. I had to pay $2800. (book value) for it. I purchased it since I needed a reliable car for my son to take to college for his freshman year. I was hoping to find a car that will last a long time and not need lots of work. Is this engine a reliable engine that will be able to go 200,000 - 300,000 miles? The car has had the timing belt, water pump, tensioner and 2 other belts replaced at 102k and two new front axles at 106K miles. It has had a new brake light switch replaced at 109k at a cost of $200.( I don't know why they were charged $180. labor?) I received 2 new struts and 1 new shock (all monroe manufacture) 1 shock was already installed. The other 3 parts were not. Did I pay too much for this car? Is this a great reliable Toyota? I was told that this engine was one of the best that Toyota ever made. Please give your opinion on this purchase. I think the car will need a few repairs this summer before it is driven on trips. It has a small oil leak and by the time my son learns how to drive a 5 speed manual shift I hope it doesn't need a clutch. I think the clutch hydraulic system is leaking onto the hot manifold. It just started doing that and was smoking due to fluid burning. The clutch pedal needs to be depressed when you try to shift the car into gear after you start the car. It appears to be leaking underneath the car near the exhaust pipe. It is dripping on the ground. Will this leave me stranded? Should I not drive it until it is fixed? What do you think is wrong with it. The slave cylinder is dry and looks like it has been replaced. The master cylinder for the clutch has not shown any loss of fluid. Any ideas on where it might be leaking?
The engine is a 2.0 liter engine that they only used for one year on the 1986 Celica ST coupe. It is a model 2S-E and they used it on camrys also. I haven't done a compression check. I should have done one before I purchased it. I hope it has got good compression on all four cylinders. I figured if the car lasted my son for at least 4 years of college that it was worth $2800. The car has held its value well. I am going to put in new plugs and cap, rotor and wires. Should I use the plugs the owners manual says to use or should I use platinum plugs to last longer. They list Nippondenso # W16EXR-U11 or NGK # BPR5EY11. Which plug do you reccommend? The other engine for this year is the 3S-GE which was used on the better models of celicas. They don't show that the valves are adjustable on the 2S-E engine and that the 3S-GE did have adjustable valves and used platinum plugs. Can the valves be adjusted on the 2S-E and can I use the platinum plugs? Thanks for your reply.Russell
It has a lously am-fm original analog radio. I will have to replace that. Interior is nice with a small stain on the drivers seat. No rips or wear on the interior other than a small crack on the dash board near the openings for the defrost air. Please let me know your opinions. I can post pictures if I can figure out how to do that. Thanks for your replies. Alexander Please let me know your thoughts about the reliability of this car, engine etc and if you have any ideas about the clutch fluid leak. The fluid does look like it needs to be flushed. It is not perfectly clear.

ST165-2765 05-25-2011 10:08 PM

Well you wrote a book so you probably scared most people off. Individual questions probably stand a better chance of getting answers.

Out of all the "S" engines the 2se is the only one I haven't had. 3sfe, 3sge, 3sgte & 5sfe engines are all very reliable engines which I regularly get 400,000km on. The exception there would be the 3sgte but thats a turbo engine and tends to only get 200,000-300,000.

Now I would have to assume that the 2se engine being the least powerfull of the bunch is probably going to be the most reliable of the bunch and I have never heard any complaints about the 2se engine except for lack of power.

You can't go wrong buying a 4th gen Celica. You paid enough for the car but I would pay that much too for a rust free 4th gen with low miles.

You definetely have a leak in the clutch line somewhere. Trace the solid line back from the slave cylinder to the top of the transmission where it will connect to a flexible hose which will continue back to the firewall and
turn back into a solid steel line that will continue to the clutch master cylinder. As long as the leak doesn't get any worse then the slave cylinder
will continue to function. You can always test the system by starting the car and then depress the clutch and keep it depressed and place it in first gear and see how long it takes for enough fluid to leak out for the clutch to start grabbing. Hopefully you have at least 10 seconds but as long as you have a couple seconds at least you can shift. Periodically do the test and if you notice the time going down then its time to fix the leak. Keep checking the clutch reservoir so you don't get air in the line.

I allways use whatever NKG spark plug is recommended

You are correct 3sge/3sgte valves can be adjusted useing different sized shims, I have no idea about the 2se valves

Some common problems
- turn the key and the starter doesn't turn over on click or anything, the starter relay becomes intermittent over time so repeated trys will eventually get it to work until the relay is replaced. You also have the option of popping the clutch on a standard
-heater controls become intermittent over time, the circuit board in the heater control panel has some bad solder connections which break eventually, replace unit or re solder circuit board
-if you have a hatchback the side window sealing goop will fail over time and the rear strut towers will rust out, this may also happen to coupes.
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...earfender2.jpg

I've had 6 4th gen in the past 10 years. 4 of them were for the road and 2 were for parts. The only thing that kills these cars is rust and I live in Canada where they just cover the roads in salt. I currently have an 88 GTS and an 88 All Trac and would recommend buying a 4th gen to anyone.

ST165-2765 05-25-2011 10:21 PM

If you find its the flexible clutch line thats leaking then you may want to consider a braided steel replacement
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e.../clutch2-2.jpg

I also forgot that another notorious problem with 4th gens is a leaking power steering high pressure hose- best fix there is to take the old hydraulic to a hose repair shop so they can use the old fittings and put a better quality hose on just don't get to stiff a hose.

Alexander Hill 05-26-2011 07:23 PM

Dear Canadian neighbor: Thanks for your replies and photos. I will try to find a leak in the clutch lines to see what is failing. If I try to repair it myself I would need a new slave or clutch release cylinder and a new clutch master cylinder and a new braided flexible hose to fix th complete system back to new? I can get new beck arnley parts for only $23 for the master cylinder and $18 for the slave cylinder and $18 for the hose (unbraided). Total $60 approximately. Are Beck Arnley parts good or should I try to get better quality Wagner parts or Toyota parts? Is this a fairly easy replacement of parts and a fairly easy flush and bleed for the hydraulic fluid? I am not the greatest mechanic. Should I use Dot 3 fluid as reccomended in the manual? I am only finding synthetic Dot 3 fluid. Should I try to find Dot 3 fluid that is not synthetic? Thanks for your reply. Alex

ST165-2765 05-28-2011 01:46 AM

You would also need 2 solid steel lines to replace everything. The following picture shows the solid steel lines in yellow and the braided hose in blue.
The first solid steel line starts at the slave cylinder and goes to the top of the transmission where it connects to the flexible line. the other end of the flexible line connects to the second steel tube on the firewall right in the center of the firewall about 12-14" down. The solid steel line runs from that point up to the top of the firewall and the along the top of the firewall over to the clutch master cylinder.
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...ds/052611f.jpg

I highly doubt either of your cylinders is leaking their pretty reliable especially with your millage. I would bet its the flexible hose unless 1 of the solid steel lines has rusted.

Is it a hard job to replace......
-solid steel line fron slave cylinder to flexible line on top of tranny is the easiest to replace
-flexible line is second easiest to replace
-solid steel line on firewall is the hardest

The biggest problem is allways getting access to the part your trying to fix.

I have had no experience with Beck Arnley parts but then the original parts have lasted 25 years so if you got another 10 years out of aftermarket parts that may well last the life of the car.

I would use synthetic brake fluid

Alexander Hill 06-07-2011 07:30 PM

Dear friend from Quebec: I have had the car on the road for a few weeks now and I have noticed that the power steering fluid is leaking since the level is going down in the reservoir. I think you mentioned that the car is notorious for leaking power steering fluid. Does the car have 2 pressure lines? The car also has 2 low pressure lines? Are they hard to replace? I think that may be what is leaking on the exhaust pipe and causing some smoke to puff out from underneath the hood every other day. Would a lucas stop leak for power steering or a lucas automatic transmission stop leak work since the power steering system uses Dexron II atf fluid? Thanks for your reply. Russell

ST165-2765 06-07-2011 10:23 PM

I doubt stop leak is going to work for very long if at all. All of these miracle fixes if they work at all should be considered a temporary measure until a permanent fix can be made.

The following pic shows an oem hose and one made a a farm supply shop
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...89GTS/0120.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...89GTS/0121.jpg

The old hose hacked appart for parts
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...iassembly3.jpg

what you need to keep
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...omponents3.jpg

you could get a new double braided hose but it may be a bit stiff
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...-wirebraid.jpg

or a single braided hose which is still way better than OEM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...-wirebraid.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...9GTS/ps001.jpg

It shouldn't cost more than $30 to get a new hose put on and a better hose at that.

Your other options would be to let all the fluid drain and just have manual steering or get a new hose from Toyota which I'm sure will cost you $100 and not be as good. Manual steering works pretty well its a fairly light car only time its a pain is when the car isn't moving.

All Toyota's seem to have crappy power steering hoses

Alexander Hill 06-13-2011 08:04 PM

Dear Canadian neighbor: I am learning more about my 1986 Toyota Celica. I have noticed my hydaulic clutch pedal changes the amount of pressure it takes to push the pedal down to disengage the clutch. I was wondering if draining the hydraulic fluid and replacing the fluid with new fluid and bleeding the system might help? I have already purchased the clutch master cylinder and the clutch slave cylinder and the flexible hose but I thought I'd try replacing the fluid and bleeding the system before I replace parts- Is this a good idea? . It appears as though the slave cylinder moves the clutch fork different amounts of travel at any given time. It is hard to get the car into any gear when the pedal is easy to push down and offers no resistance. Is it possible that a flush and fill for the clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder will repair this problem? The clutch master cylinder is not leaking and the level is not going down. Is this system leaking internally? I would liketo know your thoughts. Thanks for your reply. Alexander

ST165-2765 06-14-2011 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Hill (Post 371645)
I have noticed my hydaulic clutch pedal changes the amount of pressure it takes to push the pedal down to disengage the clutch.

Is it harder to press/ works better the first time you press it and then it starts to get softer?

If the pedal was allways soft I would suspect air in the lines but since the pedal varies I doubt replacing the fuild will help. It will never hurt to change fluid though. Brake fluid does absorb moisture over time so replacement every year or 2 wont hurt.

If the slave cylinder piston seal was leaking I do believe you would see a visible leak and your fluid level would definetely go down. I do believe that the master cylinder can have a piston seal leak without their being a visible leak or fluid loss. If their is fluid loss from the master cylinder then it is going to happen inside the drivers compartment. Check your clutch pedal and find the rod attached to it that goes through the firewall to the master cylinder and check around the rod for signs of brake fluid.

So given your symptoms I'm guessing master cylinder.

Heres some manual pages

http://www.st162.net/forums/manual/Clutch/cl%20002.jpg

http://www.st162.net/forums/manual/Clutch/cl%20003.jpg

http://www.st162.net/forums/manual/Clutch/cl%20005.jpg

http://www.st162.net/forums/manual/Clutch/cl%20006.jpg

http://www.st162.net/forums/manual/Clutch/cl%20007.jpg

http://www.st162.net/forums/manual/Clutch/cl%20008.jpg

http://www.st162.net/forums/manual/Clutch/cl%20009.jpg

Alexander Hill 06-14-2011 11:24 AM

Dear friend: thanks for your reply and advice and pictures. The clutch pedal is basically soft almost all of the time now. I am going to try to bleed the clutch pedal and see if that helps. I will also see if I can spot any leaks near the rod. Thanks for your reply. Alexander


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